If you are reading this and have even so much as reported abuse to an elder and no action was taken, here is the link again for you to assist the Inquiry:
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
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One of the most important questions.
by Lemonp init is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.
however one of the most important things to ask is this:.
is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.
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defender of truth
Interesting thoughts.
Could's and should's will not make any difference though.
Can you contact the police in Australia and report to them that elders are taking notes of sexual details they should not be asking about?
No, the police wouldn't be interested (I think).
The situation looks hopeless in Australia, read the following page, it seems they can't even agree on what exploitative material is..
"However, three years later (mid 2008) it appears such work has been proceeding at snail's pace, or that the project has been abandoned due to inability to achieve Australia-wide consensus about what should and should not be proscribed by such legislation. (Update: During 2010-2011, 3 States made changes to their legislation, however while a few changes were an improvement, overall the result is increased inconsistency.)"
http://libertus.net/censor/laws/celaws.html
You might want to read this too:
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69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
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defender of truth
Cofty, this is the only schedule I could find. It shows the stages of the inquiry anyway:
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69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
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defender of truth
This could make all the difference, if enough people have the courage to speak out..
If anyone wants to share their experience with the Inquiry, here is the link.
"Contact us
Victims and Survivors: share your experience
Sharing information with us will help us to investigate institutional failures to protect children from sexual abuse.
We want to hear from anyone who was sexually abused as a child in an institutional setting like a care home, a school, or a religious, voluntary or state organisation.
We also want to hear from anyone who reported their sexual abuse as a child to a person in authority like a police officer or teacher where the report was either ignored or not properly acted on.
You can tell us as much, or as little, as you want about your experience. To get in touch, you can:..."
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69
Could the Independent Inquiry in England and Wales expose jw.org's child abuse failures? And how can we help?
by defender of truth inwith all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in australia, i thought that it may be a good time to highlight this... i apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of july the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse in england and wales was opened.
here is some information regarding it's aims.. "about the inquiry.
the inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in england and wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.. the inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:.
-
defender of truth
With all the talk about the org's policies and failures regarding child sexual abuse being publically exposed in Australia, I thought that it may be a good time to highlight this..
I apologise if this has already been discussed, but on the 9th of July the Independent Inquiry into child sexual abuse in England and Wales was opened.
Here is some information regarding it's aims.
"About the Inquiry
The Inquiry offers an unprecedented opportunity to examine the extent to which institutions and organisations in England and Wales have taken seriously their responsibility to protect children.
The Inquiry will investigate a wide range of institutions including:
... churches, mosques and other religious organisations
charities and voluntary organisations"
www.csa-inquiry.independent.gov.uk/about-the-inquiry
"09 July 2015 By admin
The Independent Inquiry into child sex abuse in England and Wales opened this morning with a statement from Lowell Goddard, and a warning that the Inquiry may last until 2020.
Justice Goddard, who was appointed Chair of the Inquiry in February after a turbulent few months following the resignation of Fiona Woolf, used her opening comments to say that the sexual abuse of children has left “scars” not only on victims, but on society as a whole.
“This inquiry,” she said, “provides a unique opportunity to expose past failures of institutions to protect children, to confront those responsible, to uncover systemic failures, to provide support to victims and survivors, in sharing their experiences, and to make recommendations that will help prevent the sexual abuse and exploitation of children in the future.”
She also stated that she hoped to have concluded the Inquiry by 2020, but does not underestimate the size of the task which faces her, describing it as “daunting”.
The Inquiry will investigate how public bodies failed to act to prevent the abuse of children."
http://www.childabuseinquirynews.co.uk/independent-inquiry-opened-by-lowell-goddard/
This page will help you keep up-to-date, if you wish to bookmark it..
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28
One of the most important questions.
by Lemonp init is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.
however one of the most important things to ask is this:.
is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.
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defender of truth
If simply making notes of what has happened in a case of abuse is producing child pornography, how come the JW elders are not right now being charged with producing child pornography? It is now a matter of public record:
"Max Horley was an elder for the Jehovah’s Witness congregation in Narrogin, Western Australia, in the late 1980s when a woman, known as BCB, was interviewed about her relationship with another church elder, Bill Neill.
On Monday, BCB, 47, told how Neill, who is dead, groomed her from the age of 15. She said he would molest her and spy on her when she was in the shower.She was friendly with Neill’s daughter and spent a lot of time at their house, where “uncle Bill” would tongue kiss her.When the abuse was revealed, BCB was asked to attend meetings with two elders and Neill, who joked about what he had done. At meetings BCB said she felt guilty and found it hard to detail the abuse.
Neill denied any intentional misconduct.
Horley said Neill was later stood down as an elder because the allegations cast a shadow over his qualifications to teach the word of God. Horley, an elder in the church for more than 30 years, said notes about sexual abuse allegations were not kept in case they fell into the wrong hands.
“We do not want our wives knowing our stuff – what sort of things we are dealing with,” Horley said.He also said they destroyed notes because they wanted to limit the number of people in the congregation who knew about the abuse."www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/jul/27/jehovahs-witnesses-destroyed-notes-about-child-sex-abuse-inquiry-told
Does anyone see my point? -
28
One of the most important questions.
by Lemonp init is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.
however one of the most important things to ask is this:.
is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.
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defender of truth
Firstly, there is no need for the sarcastic repetition of Key Point.
Secondly: "That intent never has to proven when it involves minors."
"The JWs elders are not professionals with the skills to handle evidence collection. Because of that, it cannot be considered evidence collecting."
.. So are you saying then that legally, any nonprofessional person without the skills to investigate abuse, who asks a child about what happened during abuse and makes any notes is producing child pornography?
It seems a bit odd that the Royal Commission haven't noticed that fact. Or anybody else.
Do you have any sources to back that up?
It would be great if you had found a legal angle by which to prevent these traumatic elder sessions, but it just doesn't seem to be legally possible to me.
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Aussie Article: The Saturday Paper - Royal commission examines Jehovah Witnesses cover-up
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/law-crime/2015/08/01/royal-commission-examines-jehovah-witnesses-cover/14383512002194 .
royal commission examines jehovah witnesses cover-up.
newsaug 1, 2015. martin mckenzie-murray the jehovahs witnesses fiercely literal reading of the bible has distanced them from the law and politics, but the royal commission into child sexual abuse is ending that..
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defender of truth
Thank you, Barbara. Keep up the good work!!
This article needs to be bumped to the top for the next few weeks, at least.
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28
One of the most important questions.
by Lemonp init is enthralling having everything being dragged kicking and screaming into the light of day.
however one of the most important things to ask is this:.
is the rc evidence admissable in other countries and other courts?.
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defender of truth
"The whole process that the JW elders engage in, of collecting sexual material from minors...is a process that fits the legal definition of producing and distributing child pornography."
I must disagree with Orphan Crow's claim in the previous post..
If a child were to tell YOU what had happened to them during abuse, and you made notes of what they said, in case the story changes at a later date or you forgot what had happened.. As you may need to do if you were to support a police investigation for instance.. Would that be producing child pornography?
Would a police officer taking a statement from a minor and keeping a written record be producing child pornography..?
Put aside that elders don't support police investigations, and that they should have no need to ask for explicit details and handle these cases themselves, for the moment.
Making notes or records of a child's statement or testimony is not technically producing pornography, is it? Legally, it is not.
This article from a few years back is interesting.
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" A Conservative MP is seeking to change the law to close a loophole which allows paedophiles to legally possess written accounts of child abuse."
"Sir Paul wants to amend existing legislation so that written material is treated in the same way as indecent images, for which possession carries a maximum three-year prison term."
The law would be tightly written, he insisted, to cover obscene writing of a nature "that it must reasonably be assumed to have been produced solely or principally for the purpose of sexual arousal".
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19574487
And this following page is just one example showing that there must be a sexual purpose for the writing of the material, in order for it to qualify as child pornography.
So how exactly would you go about proving that the notes were taken down or read for a sexual purpose?
Just asking.
Accusing anyone of intentionally passing on or producing child pornography is a very dangerous area, and quite possibly slanderous.
And you appear to be claiming that the entire process fits this definition.
I think you are barking up the wrong tree here, this time. But before the flaming starts, I am not defending their policies.
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Pornography:
"Printed or visual material containing the explicit description or display of sexual organs or activity, intended to stimulate sexual excitement."
Key phrase here: intended to stimulate sexual excitement.
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What I believe to be true- and how I have come to believe it.
by defender of truth ini apologise if this story has already been posted.. it gave me hope... hope that even those who ignore their doubts and bury themselves can awaken, and become authentic people who just want to make the world a better place.
both man and wife woke up at the same time.. great thoughts on the meaning of life and humanities potential towards the end... www.medium.com/keep-learning-keep-growing/what-i-believe-to-be-true-and-how-i-have-come-to-believe-it-13df821c3ed.
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defender of truth
I apologise if this story has already been posted.
It gave me hope..
Hope that even those who ignore their doubts and bury themselves can awaken, and become authentic people who just want to make the world a better place. Both man and wife woke up at the same time.
Great thoughts on the meaning of life and humanities potential towards the end..